The Great American Songbook

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The Great American Songbook

Postby justjack » Fri Apr 11, 2003 8:39 am

A minute ago I was posting about Aleman, and it occurred to me that this guy from Argentina was playing many of the same tunes as Our Man of
France, and that there were also countless Americans playing them as well (though no doubt not quite so sweetly). The question, though, is this:
who among the Europeans gave the definitive performance of any given song? That is, if you were to play, today, in a certain section of Europe, whose tunes, whose arrangements, should you know? Feel free to go nuts, here, please.
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Postby Maurice II » Sat Apr 12, 2003 5:26 am

If you pursue your question from another angle, you might find that Aleman lifted at least one tune in fine detail from Pink Anderson, a former child slave and adult minstrel show performer...a well-recorded ragtime guitarist and singer of the same era. I've no idea how he got Pink's recording. Maybe it was the other way around, though I doubt Pink had electricity.

:shock:
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Postby TedGottsegen » Sat Apr 12, 2003 5:56 am

Maurice II wrote:If you pursue your question from another angle, you might find that Aleman lifted at least one tune in fine detail from Pink Anderson, a former child slave and adult minstrel show performer...a well-recorded ragtime guitarist and singer of the same era. I've no idea how he got Pink's recording. Maybe it was the other way around, though I doubt Pink had electricity.
:shock:


Maurice,

What tune is this? I've never been a real fan of Aleman and would be intrigued to know more.
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Postby Maurice II » Sat Apr 12, 2003 4:44 pm

I don't have any Aleman and my Anderson's sadly unplayable, but anybody with both can confirm. I'll see what I can do, datawise. I used to play some ragtime and when I first heard Aleman I laughed.

By the way, since when was metropolitan Argentina culturally as far from fantasies of "Europe" as, say, Great Britain or Germany ? Hitlers' folks thought it a lot like home.

Aleman family first appears in Latin America in the 1500s, possible minor French royal heritage. A prior stop was the Canary Islands.

And of course, there's tango, from Africa and Cuba (a touch of Europe's polka in Cuba) to Argentina and then to Paris at the turn of the century...mass insanity, then Aleman's visit, taking advantage of an existing fad. Boogie down.

...tango in Paris:

http://www.tangolibre.qc.ca/anglais/tan ... paris2.htm

... standard account of origin of tango (3 entirely or partially black influences):

http://www.intellinks.com/rioplata/tandance.htm

"The Argentine Tango was born in Buenos Aires. It has been suggested that it came from three main roots: The Havanera from Havana, Cuba (1700-1800), The Spanish Milonga from Spain (1800) and the Candombe from Africans living in Argentina. (1600-1800). The word tango has various suggested origins. From "tambo’o" (drum) or perhaps more adequate and closer to the feelings expressed in the music, from "zhango" an African god of thunder and fire. In the early times tango was played in the outskirts of the city in impoverished neighborhoods and brothels. Later it moved to the center of the city and higher classes. "
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Postby TedGottsegen » Sat Apr 12, 2003 4:50 pm

Maurice II wrote:I don't have any Aleman and my Anderson's sadly unplayable, but anybody with both can confirm. I'll see what I can do, datawise. I used to play some ragtime and when I first heard Aleman I laughed.


As did I. Blind Boy Fuller was my guy so I'm really interested in hearing who Aleman would treat a raggy tune. Please search it out if you can.

Maurice II wrote:By the way, since when was metropolitan Argentina culturally as far from fantasies of "Europe" as, say, Great Britain or Germany ? Hitlers' folks thought it a lot like home.


Not that far, if you ask me. My understanding is that Argentina has always (at least before the revolution) been known as the "Paris" of Latin American - how of sophisticated society and the same sort of high culture that goes along with buckets and buckets of money, at least for a small lucky portion of the population.

Not to mention that there was an extended "Hot Club" tradition in Argentina after Aleman died which is still happening today.
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Postby Thrip » Sat Apr 12, 2003 5:42 pm

TedGottsegen wrote:
Maurice II wrote:I used to play some ragtime and when I first heard Aleman I laughed.


As did I. Blind Boy Fuller was my guy so I'm really interested in hearing who Aleman would treat a raggy tune. Please search it out if you can.


And me also. Rev'd Gary Davis was my man.
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Postby TedGottsegen » Sat Apr 12, 2003 5:42 pm

Thrip wrote:
TedGottsegen wrote:
Maurice II wrote:I used to play some ragtime and when I first heard Aleman I laughed.


As did I. Blind Boy Fuller was my guy so I'm really interested in hearing who Aleman would treat a raggy tune. Please search it out if you can.


And me also. Rev'd Gary Davis was my man.


Although he wasn't raggy, did anyone every get into Scrapper Blackwell?
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Postby justjack » Sun Apr 13, 2003 6:24 am

Maurice II wrote:
"If you pursue your question from another angle, you might find that Aleman lifted at least one tune in fine detail from Pink Anderson, a former child slave and adult minstrel show performer...a well-recorded ragtime guitarist and singer of the same era."

I'd never heard of Anderson-thanks for the tip; I'll have to check it out.

Also:
"By the way, since when was metropolitan Argentina culturally as far from fantasies of "Europe" as, say, Great Britain or Germany ? Hitlers' folks thought it a lot like home."

I never thought it was. Just the opposite; my first post lumps everyone together. Thanks for the tango background, though-it's one of those things that I love but can't play for anything.
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Postby Maurice II » Mon Apr 14, 2003 5:08 am

http://www.io.com/~tbone1/blues/ECblz/pinkan.html

I found Pink Anderson on one side of an EBay lp on Friday, "buy it now" @ $149.00. Um....It's gone, but there were no bidders at the time. Why would that be?

Pink was more "entertaining" than the more famous greats (think Stepandfechit)...but a virtuoso. His "history" doesn't mention Cuba, but minstrel show guys did go there sometimes, back then...talk about speculative!
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