Swing 85

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Swing 85

Postby justjack » Mon Apr 19, 2004 8:32 pm

Does anyone happen to have a chart for this tune, or know where I might find one? Thanks, gang.

Jack.
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Postby djangology » Mon Apr 19, 2004 8:55 pm

by the way, the tune "Milko" is almost the same except the B part is a few bars shorter...
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Postby nwilkins » Mon Apr 19, 2004 9:15 pm

A section:

Am | Am | Dm | Dm | E7 | E7 | Am | Am (or G) | Fmaj | Fmaj | Dm6 (or Bmin7b5) | Dm6 | E7 | E7 | Am | Am |

B section:

G7 | G7 | Cmaj | Cmaj | G7 | G7 | Cmaj |Cmaj | E7 | E7 | Am | Am | Fmaj | Fmaj | E7 | E7 |
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Postby Lmntry » Mon Apr 19, 2004 9:48 pm

I have 2 versions of milko...Collin Cosimini and Moreno.
Both use the form Nwilkins gave or the one on gadjodrom.
However they both perform it by deleting the first 4 bars off the B section.

Stephane Wremble records the song with the full B section...but he decided to change the name of the song to swing 85 :roll:

So much for writing these things in stone.

David
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Postby nwilkins » Mon Apr 19, 2004 10:06 pm

David,

From what you have said (although I haven't heard Wrembel's version) the song Wrembel performs is actually called Swing 85 - the chart I wrote out is for Swing 85, not Milko. (You can find both songs on the Titi Winterstein record Djinee tu Kowa Ziro.) So Stephane is using the correct title.

Milko, as Jon pointed out, does have a shorter B section but essentially the same chords. The confusion lies in the fact that Colin and Moreno both play the head of Swing 85 when they are playing Milko (ie playing the shortened Milko chord structure and calling the song "Milko").

At least, that is the best explanation I can come up with - care to comment Ted?
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Postby justjack » Mon Apr 19, 2004 11:58 pm

To further muddy the waters: the gadjodrom version of Milko has the same B section written out above (sixteen bars), and seems to indicate that the tune is the subject of some controversy, though I think it's concerned with authorship.

http://www.gadjodrom.com/grille.php3?tune=milko

Then there's this version of Milko:
http://www.visi.com/~mpv/charts/Milko.pdf

Here, it seems the A section has been compressed to eight bars, then repeated (with a sub or two), and the B is compressed to eight as well. Is this just a variation, maybe? If so, maybe someone who's heard different versions can give us a little list of who plays what?

Glad to see the tunes section going again!
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Postby nwilkins » Tue Apr 20, 2004 4:46 am

Jack,

The tune Milko was written by Titi Winterstein. The tune Swing 85 was also written by him (or maybe by Lulu Reinhardt - in any case it was written by the Titi Winterstein Quintett). They were both recorded on the same Titi Winterstein Quintett record (Djinee tu Kowa Ziro) - one is track four and the other is track six. The A section chord progressions are essentially the same, but Milko has a shorter B section of 12 bars.

When Moreno and Colin Cosimini play Milko they do play over the Milko chord progression (ie 12 bar bridge). However, they both use the head of Swing 85 when playing the A section.

If it helps any, Christophe Lartilleux also has a chart for Swing 85 on his site - it fits the chord progression I gave above and gives the original Swing 85 head (ie what Moreno and Colin play for Milko).

I have a recording of Stochelo and Jimmy playing Milko and they are using a head that is similar to the Swing 85, though not exactly the same.

Maybe since the original Milko didn't really have a recognizable head (there is just a long slow violin intro and then improvising) people have just been playing whatever works over it, and of course Swing 85 was an obvious choice.

Of course, if that's the case, then why didn't Swing 85 just become the song everyone plays (instead of using the Milko bridge)? Perhaps the two were conflated over time, and the Swing 85 melody just became the recognised head for Milko :?:
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Postby justjack » Tue Apr 20, 2004 5:20 am

nwilkins wrote:Maybe since the original Milko didn't really have a recognizable head (there is just a long slow violin intro and then improvising) people have just been playing whatever works over it, and of course Swing 85 was an obvious choice.

Of course, if that's the case, then why didn't Swing 85 just become the song everyone plays (instead of using the Milko bridge)? Perhaps the two were conflated over time, and the Swing 85 melody just became the recognised head for Milko :?:


Mystery solved (I think)! I didn't realize Milko never had a head of its own; thanks for clearing that up. I'll have to track down that Winterstein record now. If anyone else is interested in checking out the Lartilleux site, here it is:
http://lartilleux.ifrance.com/lartilleux/
(Click on the partitions link for the charts-some nice stuff there.)
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Postby nwilkins » Tue Apr 20, 2004 12:26 pm

I have posted lo-fi Mp3s of Milko and Swing 85 from "Djinee tu Kowa Ziro"
to this location:

http://launch.groups.yahoo.com/group/Gy ... ad4/files/

and in doing so I have just realised that the original Milko is actually in Dmin (ie Dm to Gm to A7 to Dm) - so it does seem that the most likely explanation is that the two tunes were melded at some point. All that remains of the original Milko (in the more recent versions) is the shortened bridge I guess.
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Postby djangology » Tue Apr 20, 2004 4:17 pm

thanks for posting those mp3s . that solves the whole issue perfectly. by the way, at the end of Swing 85 there are a couple licks in the melody that sound VERY much like the head to Mira Pral. its interesting. :-)

i think the tune Swing 85 might sound good doing the Swing 85 part at a slower pace and then kick it up to a higher tempo and play it with the Milko chord pattern... :-)
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