Dorado out, Angelo in

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Dorado out, Angelo in

Postby justjack » Wed Jul 06, 2005 10:33 pm

For anyone thinking of attending the July 27 show in NY, today's Times notes that Dorado won't be there because of a broken arm. It says Angelo will be filling in for him.

Best,
Jack.
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Postby HowardR » Sat Jul 30, 2005 11:48 pm

More often than not, there always seems to be some kind of mishap.

This year, Dorado broke his arm.
Last year the Basily Group decided at the last moment to drop out.
The year before that, Dorado sliced his finger & could only play electric.
The year before that, Florin, Emereli, & Birelli missed flights/couldn't get a visa on time, bla, bla, bla.


I know $hit happens......but more with Gypsy Jazz than any other musical genre with which I'm involved. :|
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Postby justjack » Sun Jul 31, 2005 2:50 am

HowardR wrote:More often than not, there always seems to be some kind of mishap.

This year, Dorado broke his arm.
Last year the Basily Group decided at the last moment to drop out.
The year before that, Dorado sliced his finger & could only play electric.
The year before that, Florin, Emereli, & Birelli missed flights/couldn't get a visa on time, bla, bla, bla.


I know $hit happens......but more with Gypsy Jazz than any other musical genre with which I'm involved. :|


But did you go to the show?
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Postby Teddy Dupont » Sun Jul 31, 2005 11:01 am

HowardR wrote:I know $hit happens......but more with Gypsy Jazz than any other musical genre with which I'm involved. :|

They are obviously trying to imitate Django too literally. :roll:
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Postby HowardR » Sun Jul 31, 2005 5:12 pm

No, I didn't go to this one. Not because of Dorado. I didn't even know about him not being there until after the show.

I've been to every Lincoln Center concert and every Birdland Fest (with the exception of the first one). I was on the fence about this concert for a couple of months. I prefer the Birdland concerts because they are more intimate and more spontaneous IMO.

I seem to be in a funk at this juncture. For the past 5-6 years I've been listening to mostly gypsy jazz and going to concerts. It's getting to be all too familiar and redundant. Of course the musicians brought the house down at Lincoln Center. This year, last year, the year before that....and so on. The 1000 note per measure runs have become all too familiar to me and I can hear them in my head before they're even played, it seems.

I'm no musician or player by any means and I'm not worthy to carry the guitar case of any of these artists, but I'm longing for something more. I know people & purists are gonna jump on me here, but I'm wondering if anyone else feels the same way. I feel like I did about bluegrass music way back when. I listened and played that fanatically and now I can't listen to it unless somebody takes it to a new level like Newgrass Revival did. The gap between the two genres of music is narrowing (to me).

Robin Nolan has taken this direction and to a lessor extent, Stephan Wrembel and Alfonso Ponticelli. I'm not talking virtuosity per se, I'm talking ideas.

I don't know, perhaps I'm in need of intervention, or maybe I just need to get laid.
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Postby nwilkins » Sun Jul 31, 2005 11:37 pm

Howard, there are lots of us (usually those with big record collections) who feel this way. As a result I gravitate towards players/ bands like Pigalle 44, Boulou and Elios, Kamlo Barre, Jean Philippe Watremez, Christophe Lartilleux (Latcho Drom), Note Manouche, etc. etc.
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Postby HowardR » Mon Aug 01, 2005 2:20 am

Perhaps then, I should listen to a wider variety of players and groups. I will check out those whom you have mentioned. Thanks.
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Postby Teddy Dupont » Mon Aug 01, 2005 9:37 am

HowardR wrote:I seem to be in a funk at this juncture. For the past 5-6 years I've been listening to mostly gypsy jazz and going to concerts. It's getting to be all too familiar and redundant. Of course the musicians brought the house down at Lincoln Center. This year, last year, the year before that....and so on. The 1000 note per measure runs have become all too familiar to me and I can hear them in my head before they're even played, it seems.

I agree completely. The music has become repetitive, jaded, inward looking and, above all, lacks the subtlety that was the corner-stone of Reinhardt's playing. I, too, seldom visit festivals now because I cannot face yet another wall of mechanical guitars beating out the same old stuff time and time again.
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Postby Gadjo » Mon Aug 01, 2005 10:36 am

I am having a lot of sympathy with this discussion as I too have noticed this trend. To be fair it could have been forseen as the 'shred' scene in the 1980s can give us some guidance.
We have to accept that the amount of current players touched by Django's genius is particularly low and the rest fall into two basic camps (i) lick players or (ii) jazz players who do what they do on Selmer type guitars and upset the purists.

Many informed people are now expressing they are finding a shortage of jazz in gypsy jazz and that lick based soloing, or worst still pre-papared 'improvisations' are now the norm. This development is not jazz and certainly is not what Django was about. What it is however is very impressive and hits the same buttons as Steve Vai, Malmsteen, MacAlpne pressed in the shred era. To me unless it is done with taste and musicianship it is nothing more than trade show playing. What has happened to the shred market? Well it found its own travelling circus in G3 but doesn't sell anywhere near the amount - or get the critical aclaim of more song based rockers. It is now in my opinion a sad self parody.

How many young gypsy jazzers want to fully understand jazz harmony? How many can actually improvise on an unfamiliar tune? I once saw a 12 yearold Jimmy Rosenberg jamming on a campsite. The older guys responded to a request to play Laura. (quick poll - how many could play it if called now?) Jimmy was all ears for the first chorus, second he comped out the chords, third he played a solo so beautiful I can still remember it.

Perhaps there will be a change in that another Bireli/Jimmy will come along who can play great JAZZ guitar, not just jazz licks, and can do it on an acoustic guitar with a great tone.
I'm waiting eagerly.
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Postby Gadjo » Tue Aug 02, 2005 9:11 am

This debate of jazz in gypsy jazz raged into the night at the Beaufort yesterday evening where the NW's finest came out to socialise. Gary Potter shared a few thoughts on artists copying solos note for note and Trefor Owen (certainly not a gypsy jazzer) was enlightening on his view that little jazz is evident in current gypsy jazz. He does however book Bireli for his festival so he is clearly aware of the potential in some players.
We noted a new sub-group of 'revivalists' showing strong parallels to the 1950's trad scene. I personally love this lot as their goal is to totally recreate the 1930'2 QHCF. A new band called Swing Manouche played totally acoustic and filled the room with tight copies of selected Django tracks. Great fun but certainly not jazz as I define it (improvisation, spontaneity etc).
Gary played a quick solo set on archtop guitar throwing equal parts Chet Atkins to Django into the mix. Fantastic, entertaining guitar playing. Gypsy jazz?? probably not, but when Gary burns over a tune on acoustic that certainly is!
BTW please come down to the Beaufort each month. It is a great place to hang out, play and talk guitars. There is also an alarming amount of electric jazzers coming down so please help redress the balance!!
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Postby Teddy Dupont » Sat Aug 06, 2005 11:02 am

Gadjo wrote:..... and Trefor Owen (certainly not a gypsy jazzer) was enlightening on his view that little jazz is evident in current gypsy jazz.

He is absolutely right. Django was primarily jazz but much of today's gypsy jazz is a combination of folk based music, musette, tzigane and repetitive licks. I am not saying this is inherently wrong, it is just a very limiting music that has nowhere to go and does tend to quickly pall. I wonder how many of you who are avid gypsy jazz fans today will feel the same in 10 years time?

Gadjo wrote:He does however book Bireli for his festival so he is clearly aware of the potential in some players.

But Bireli is much more than just gypsy jazz as it is currently perceived. He is a true world class guitarist; not just a lick player with chops.
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Postby lnb » Sat Aug 06, 2005 12:07 pm

I think that Violinists are much more free with their playing and therefore more jazz than the guitarists in the current Gypsy Jazz scene, they don't tend to riff all night.
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Postby nwilkins » Sat Aug 06, 2005 12:22 pm

Teddy what do you think of bands/players like Pigalle44, Cordacor, Kamlo, etc.?
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